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Testname's avatar

Kinda feel like comparing the Ukraine war to historic protracted conflicts undersells the difference in scale. The USSR suffered 15k dead in 10 years in Afghanistan before they threw in the towel. Reliable numbers for the current war are hard to come by, but any estimate has Russia suffering far more in a third as much time. The fact nations are historically reluctant to admit defeat in smaller conflicts does not mean they wont due so in larger conflicts.

Obviously no one can credibly predict how long the Russian war economy (or the Ukrainian one for that matter) can last. Ditto for things like national will and morale. But it is not obvious to me that Ukrainian morale break before Russian morale, so long as both sides have the physical means to stay in the fight.

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Odinyrus of Baravia's avatar

Excellent analysis, I really enjoyed this. I don’t have time right now to give a fully thought out response-which this article certainly warrants-but I would like to offer a couple of thoughts. Let me preface these by saying that I’m a cautious supporter of the Trump administration (I’m not a “MAGA”, but i lean towards trumps goals/policies. To be clear, that isn’t intended as a full throated endorsement, just meant to offer perspective on my following thoughts.

1) it seems to me that it was Zelensky who broke the norm of having conversations like that behind closed doors, and the response of Trump and Vance was warranted. No leader should walk into the Oval Office and speak to our president that way in front of the camera, just as our president should never go to their country and do that either. Had Trump not berated him the way he did, his enemies would be talking about how weak he really is and using the “all you have to do is stand up to a bully, see” line. Zelensky was all the way out of line, he is who kept throwing verbal punches, and Trump and Vance sought to de-escalate until it became clear that Zelensky was intentionally being hostile-likely breaking an agreed upon approach to how that photo op was supposed to be staged. I could be wrong about that, and it could be Trump and Vance that set him up, but I find that hard to believe.

2) Regarding your comment about not liking a bully (I don’t either) and characterizing Putin as being the bully, a useful exercise in thinking through that framing is to consider that maybe the US is the bully right now and Putin is finally standing up to us. I’m not necessarily saying that is the case (though I’m not necessarily saying it isn’t the case, either) I’m only proposing it as a thought experiment. Given our terrible track record regarding the use of force since 1989 (though it would be fair to include Vietnam in that record) one could plausibly make the argument it is us being the bully. NATO expansion exploited Russian weakness after the fall of the Soviet Union for short term financial gain at the expense of long term strategic security for everyone involved. Hardly the act of a benevolent peace loving republic. We did all this in spite of promises we made to Russia to explicitly not do such a thing. A more exhaustive clarification is probably warranted, but as I intended this point as a thought experiment and not a defense of said perspective, I’ll leave it at that.

I wish I had more time to respond in further detail, as there is so much in this article that is very clear eyed and realistic about the situation and you are wresting with serious questions (not least the multi-polar question). These are the kinds of reasonable and informed discussions Americans need to be seriously having right now giving the changing nature of the global balance of power. “Orange man bad bully” and “woke war mongers are stupid” serves no one, and is, in fact, a great disservice to the American people. I hope your writing can inspire people of good will on your side of our current divide, and I hope mine can contribute to the same for people on mine, so that Americans can work together to navigate these troubling waters.

Thank you again for this great contribution. Cheers to you, sir.

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