It's really gratifying to see this happening. For years, I was told that conservatives just weren't good at arts and culture, and I always replied that they probably would be fine at it if they stopped trying to make explicitly ideological work and just made good art, and now the left is making the exact same mistakes. Just make good entertainment and stop trying to grind personal axes with it, it's better for everyone that way.
The left has always made ideological propaganda as "art", it's not a new thing.
A couple of days ago my wife decided she wanted to watch reruns of Dinosaurs, for some reason. It's some early 90s era sitcom where everyone is dressed as a dinosaur. Every single episode is overt left wing propaganda. All the men are evil, stupid, or both, and the episodes we watched had their evil/stupidity as the central theme of the episode. The women are always ideal. The depiction of business is backwards, etc.
There's plenty of great conservative art and culture out there, but it's almost by definition hard to spot because it's not got an overt agenda.
I also rewatched some of "Dinosaurs" recently, and while I think you are right about a lot of it, there are some episodes where the female dinosaurs do stupid or evil things. Charlene, the teenage female dinosaur, embodies a lot of negative stereotypes about teenage girls, she is vapid, materialistic, and anti-intellectual. Ethel, the grandmother, is cruel and sarcastic to Earl. Sometime her attitude is shown as justified by his stupidity, but other times it is shown as unwarranted. (I don't recall Fran or Monica ever doing anything negative)
Robby, the teenage male dinosaur, is usually portrayed as fairly intelligent and morally upright. Occasionally he has to learn a lesson, but usually he is punished by the writers for being naive rather than for being stupid or evil.
There is one episode that bucks the liberal trend and has what was a fairly conservative message in the 90s. In "Earl's Big Jackpot" Earl wins a ridiculous amount of money in a lawsuit against his employer. There are some lefty gags about his newfound wealth corrupting him. However, the main conflict is about how Earl's lawsuit (and the threat of more like it in the future) causes his employer to raise all their prices and make things less affordable for ordinary people. The message seems to be that suing big corporations might feel like "sticking it to the man" in the short run, but in the long run it makes things more expensive and difficult for society.
The problem with this is that woke probably isn’t over. You’re talking about decades of cultural conditioning, and there’s nothing in modern right wing thought that “disproves” left wing thought. We just know that people have an end point to their tolerance of brazenly anti-white, anti-male messaging, and it would be extremely easy for this period to look like a backlash by retrograde, privileged social forces against progress.
And be honest: the right will blow it. I expect this out of them.
The references to social justice will be more oblique, but they won’t vanish.
Amen! I don't care what she said in interviews. I don't like it but I'd never dislike a good movie over something an actor said outside of it. If the movie sucks it's because it was badly written, and not by her. Also she obviously had nothing to do with the dwarf fiasco. Even Peter Dinklage can't really take credit for that, he didn't make the decision. I guess I shouldn't be surprised the people who had actual creative control here are trying to pretend the movie is the fault of whoever was most in the press around the time of its release. Sad.
Yes, Zegler is young, but, like, have you actually seen her in interviews? There are plenty of young actresses who understand how to be professional and on message and a team player. She is not one of them. While the movie was probably doomed anyway, she did not help matters.
The pipeline issue is real. Snow White was not Disney’s only flop this year. They’re up to four, and Fantastic Four is bidding fair to make it five.
Yeah, I agree with this entry on the whole and I don’t think David here is trying to absolve her of alleged nastiness, just guide the understandable ire to the more important target. Sure she was ultimately a pawn, but she was still the least important piece of a board game that I and many others no longer wanted to play. Don’t blame the pieces, just don’t play the game.
Well, I’m certainly not going to defend Disney. I hate them and hope they go bankrupt. They’ve made a business of buying up IP that I enjoyed as a kid and then ruining it for clout. They’ve been very gratuitous about it too, like they think they’re doing the world a favor by systematically destroying stuff that was liked and enjoyed by the wrong kind of people.
Agree with some of this but Zegler isn't a kid, she's 24! And:
> How was Rachel Zegler supposed to know that folks would finally get tired of that war minutes before she set out on her press tour?
She shat on her fellow actors, appearing to publicly hope their roles would be cut from the movie. She told people that if they didn't like her politics, to not watch her film. None of this was OK at any time, let alone just five minutes ago. Her behavior was unacceptable at all times in human history. The only thing that's new is that the people who are sick of it have started to engage in spontaneous boycotts.
And if you think woke is over, well .... not sure what to tell you. I wish you were right.
I didn't see any of that backbiting, but the "if you don't like it don't watch" thing was classic wokery. Most of what I saw of her was very much of the moment, and I don't think it's behavior we're likely to see repeated very often. I'm hoping woke is over as a culturally dominant force, but it will remain very potent in some, siloed spaces for a long time.
You're ignoring that not only are her very loud and murderous opinions on Israel a problem - she said, very publicly, that after Trump's election - all Trump supporters should suffer and never know a moments peace.
I actually 100% agree that Disney is throwing her under the bus and the problems with THE MOVIE are not her fault. The problems with the movie are Disney's fault.
But her comments about hating half the country and [paraphrasing] hoping all the Jews die - well that's HER FAULT - not Disney.
I'm not the target market for this film - and i'm sure the film sucks anyway - but I never want to watch anything with Zegler in it. Ever. I don't want her to get any residuals for me.
This is similar to how I didn't want to watch anything with Ezra Miller in it because he's a pedo who rapes children.
Is it Ezra or Warners fault that the Flash movie sucked? That's Warners fault.
Is it Ezra or Warners fault that I don't ever want to see Ezra Miller on a screen in anything ever? That's Ezra's fault.
You're intentionally ignoring some of Zeglers actions to try to make your point. If you'd actually talked to people who hate Zegler (like some of your past posts have suggested) you'd find the reasons have much less to do with the movie and more to do with her own actions and words.
It's more that I assume her words actions to be an outgrowth of the on-set culture, not that that necessarily excuses her. I just don't think she goes on TV and says all that unless she's pretty damn sure that the folks whose movie she's promoting are a-ok with it. I could be wrong though, and perhaps she's more culpable than I've allowed for her. I still think Disney is the more appropriate target for ire.
I don’t want to see a beloved cartoon redone in 3-D with actual humans. No matter what else may be swirling around the movie, the format doesn’t interest me. Okay I’ll take that back; it might well work with super heroes-but the stories are created, if not the characters. But not when the original was so complete, so lovely. Judgment is required: do you want a live action Alice in Wonderland? Fantasia? Elmer Fudd? The Simpsons? No worries though, these titles don’t offer “princesses” which can generate still more merchandise for little girls.
The thing about The Pitt is that the cringe feels realistic.
I expect a middle-aged doctor to be out of touch and complain about young men he doesn't understand. I expect the social worker to have an extremely awkward interaction with a young man like that.
Check out Slam Frank the off broadway musical coming out in September. It’s a sendup of Woke media. It imagines what happens when a progressive community theater company decides to transform Anne Frank’s true story into an intersectional, multiethnic, genderqueer, decolonized, empowering Afro-Latin hip-hop musical. The previews are hilarious
It's really gratifying to see this happening. For years, I was told that conservatives just weren't good at arts and culture, and I always replied that they probably would be fine at it if they stopped trying to make explicitly ideological work and just made good art, and now the left is making the exact same mistakes. Just make good entertainment and stop trying to grind personal axes with it, it's better for everyone that way.
The left has always made ideological propaganda as "art", it's not a new thing.
A couple of days ago my wife decided she wanted to watch reruns of Dinosaurs, for some reason. It's some early 90s era sitcom where everyone is dressed as a dinosaur. Every single episode is overt left wing propaganda. All the men are evil, stupid, or both, and the episodes we watched had their evil/stupidity as the central theme of the episode. The women are always ideal. The depiction of business is backwards, etc.
There's plenty of great conservative art and culture out there, but it's almost by definition hard to spot because it's not got an overt agenda.
I'll have to rewatch that one.
I also rewatched some of "Dinosaurs" recently, and while I think you are right about a lot of it, there are some episodes where the female dinosaurs do stupid or evil things. Charlene, the teenage female dinosaur, embodies a lot of negative stereotypes about teenage girls, she is vapid, materialistic, and anti-intellectual. Ethel, the grandmother, is cruel and sarcastic to Earl. Sometime her attitude is shown as justified by his stupidity, but other times it is shown as unwarranted. (I don't recall Fran or Monica ever doing anything negative)
Robby, the teenage male dinosaur, is usually portrayed as fairly intelligent and morally upright. Occasionally he has to learn a lesson, but usually he is punished by the writers for being naive rather than for being stupid or evil.
There is one episode that bucks the liberal trend and has what was a fairly conservative message in the 90s. In "Earl's Big Jackpot" Earl wins a ridiculous amount of money in a lawsuit against his employer. There are some lefty gags about his newfound wealth corrupting him. However, the main conflict is about how Earl's lawsuit (and the threat of more like it in the future) causes his employer to raise all their prices and make things less affordable for ordinary people. The message seems to be that suing big corporations might feel like "sticking it to the man" in the short run, but in the long run it makes things more expensive and difficult for society.
The problem with this is that woke probably isn’t over. You’re talking about decades of cultural conditioning, and there’s nothing in modern right wing thought that “disproves” left wing thought. We just know that people have an end point to their tolerance of brazenly anti-white, anti-male messaging, and it would be extremely easy for this period to look like a backlash by retrograde, privileged social forces against progress.
And be honest: the right will blow it. I expect this out of them.
The references to social justice will be more oblique, but they won’t vanish.
I agree. I could even see a second coming of woke if things go badly enough in the next four years.
If we can get them back down to 1990s levels I'll be content.
I don’t think it works like a thermostat.
Amen! I don't care what she said in interviews. I don't like it but I'd never dislike a good movie over something an actor said outside of it. If the movie sucks it's because it was badly written, and not by her. Also she obviously had nothing to do with the dwarf fiasco. Even Peter Dinklage can't really take credit for that, he didn't make the decision. I guess I shouldn't be surprised the people who had actual creative control here are trying to pretend the movie is the fault of whoever was most in the press around the time of its release. Sad.
I hope "your canon loaded up" was an error, because as a pun on cannon it doesn't work at all.
Typo! Now fixed. Thanks for pointing it out.
Yes, Zegler is young, but, like, have you actually seen her in interviews? There are plenty of young actresses who understand how to be professional and on message and a team player. She is not one of them. While the movie was probably doomed anyway, she did not help matters.
The pipeline issue is real. Snow White was not Disney’s only flop this year. They’re up to four, and Fantastic Four is bidding fair to make it five.
Yeah, I agree with this entry on the whole and I don’t think David here is trying to absolve her of alleged nastiness, just guide the understandable ire to the more important target. Sure she was ultimately a pawn, but she was still the least important piece of a board game that I and many others no longer wanted to play. Don’t blame the pieces, just don’t play the game.
Well, I’m certainly not going to defend Disney. I hate them and hope they go bankrupt. They’ve made a business of buying up IP that I enjoyed as a kid and then ruining it for clout. They’ve been very gratuitous about it too, like they think they’re doing the world a favor by systematically destroying stuff that was liked and enjoyed by the wrong kind of people.
Oh, I’m not defending Disney. I’m a Bugs Bunny guy.
Agree with some of this but Zegler isn't a kid, she's 24! And:
> How was Rachel Zegler supposed to know that folks would finally get tired of that war minutes before she set out on her press tour?
She shat on her fellow actors, appearing to publicly hope their roles would be cut from the movie. She told people that if they didn't like her politics, to not watch her film. None of this was OK at any time, let alone just five minutes ago. Her behavior was unacceptable at all times in human history. The only thing that's new is that the people who are sick of it have started to engage in spontaneous boycotts.
And if you think woke is over, well .... not sure what to tell you. I wish you were right.
I didn't see any of that backbiting, but the "if you don't like it don't watch" thing was classic wokery. Most of what I saw of her was very much of the moment, and I don't think it's behavior we're likely to see repeated very often. I'm hoping woke is over as a culturally dominant force, but it will remain very potent in some, siloed spaces for a long time.
I think your argument on Zegler is weak.
You're ignoring that not only are her very loud and murderous opinions on Israel a problem - she said, very publicly, that after Trump's election - all Trump supporters should suffer and never know a moments peace.
I actually 100% agree that Disney is throwing her under the bus and the problems with THE MOVIE are not her fault. The problems with the movie are Disney's fault.
But her comments about hating half the country and [paraphrasing] hoping all the Jews die - well that's HER FAULT - not Disney.
I'm not the target market for this film - and i'm sure the film sucks anyway - but I never want to watch anything with Zegler in it. Ever. I don't want her to get any residuals for me.
This is similar to how I didn't want to watch anything with Ezra Miller in it because he's a pedo who rapes children.
Is it Ezra or Warners fault that the Flash movie sucked? That's Warners fault.
Is it Ezra or Warners fault that I don't ever want to see Ezra Miller on a screen in anything ever? That's Ezra's fault.
You're intentionally ignoring some of Zeglers actions to try to make your point. If you'd actually talked to people who hate Zegler (like some of your past posts have suggested) you'd find the reasons have much less to do with the movie and more to do with her own actions and words.
It's more that I assume her words actions to be an outgrowth of the on-set culture, not that that necessarily excuses her. I just don't think she goes on TV and says all that unless she's pretty damn sure that the folks whose movie she's promoting are a-ok with it. I could be wrong though, and perhaps she's more culpable than I've allowed for her. I still think Disney is the more appropriate target for ire.
Art communicates a message and all messages are public ergo all art is political
“…and the United States never colonized any country in Africa.”
Liberia.
I don’t want to see a beloved cartoon redone in 3-D with actual humans. No matter what else may be swirling around the movie, the format doesn’t interest me. Okay I’ll take that back; it might well work with super heroes-but the stories are created, if not the characters. But not when the original was so complete, so lovely. Judgment is required: do you want a live action Alice in Wonderland? Fantasia? Elmer Fudd? The Simpsons? No worries though, these titles don’t offer “princesses” which can generate still more merchandise for little girls.
The thing about The Pitt is that the cringe feels realistic.
I expect a middle-aged doctor to be out of touch and complain about young men he doesn't understand. I expect the social worker to have an extremely awkward interaction with a young man like that.
Check out Slam Frank the off broadway musical coming out in September. It’s a sendup of Woke media. It imagines what happens when a progressive community theater company decides to transform Anne Frank’s true story into an intersectional, multiethnic, genderqueer, decolonized, empowering Afro-Latin hip-hop musical. The previews are hilarious
What a victory! White people will never be the bad guys in a movie ever again.
Meanwhile, Trump just fucked regular Americans and fucked the budget.